CCW Safe

Inside CCW Safe Podcast- Episode 33: The Sentinel feat. Pat McNamara

In this episode, Stan and Mike talk with firearms instructor and combat strength training founder Pat McNamara.  If you don't follow Mac online, then find him @tmacsinc on Instagram, or check him out on YouTube under Pat Mac. This is a great podcast, and the three talk about his book, the Sentinel, and more!

Patrick McNamara spent 22 years in the United States Army in a myriad of special operations units. When he worked in the premier special missions unit, he became an impeccable marksman, shooting with accurate, lethal results and tactical effectiveness.

McNamara has trained tactical applications of shooting to people of all levels of marksmanship, from varsity level soldiers, and police officers who work the streets to civilians with little to no time behind the trigger.
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His military experience quickly taught him that there is more to tactical marksmanship than merely squeezing the trigger. Utilizing his years of experience, McNamara developed a training methodology that is safe, effective, and combat relevant and encourages a continuous thought process. This methodology teaches how to maintain safety at all times and choose targets that force accountability, as well as provides courses covering several categories, including individual, collective, online, and standards.
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While serving as his Unit's Marksmanship NCO, he developed his own marksmanship club with NRA, CMP, and USPSA affiliations. Mac ran monthly IPSC matches and ran semi annual military marksmanship championships to encourage marksmanship fundamentals and competitiveness throughout the Army.
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Inside CCW Safe Podcast- Episode 32: Tips And Tactics For Armed Parents feat. Steve Moses

 

In this episode, Stan and Mike talk with Steve Moses, author of Tips and Tactics for Armed Parents.  Steve talks about an interview with Melody Lauer, click here to view her article "Contextual Handgun: The Armed Parent/Guardian.

Steve also talks about another previous article Home Intruder Response in reference to laying out a complete family plan.  

Full transcription coming soon!

Time: 58:06

Inside CCW Safe Podcast- Episode 31: Modern Church Security feat. Steve Moses

In this podcast, Stan and Mike talk with Steve Moses and Allen McBee in reference to modern day church security.  Steve and Allen are both involved with church security in the DFW area. 

Full transcript coming soon!

 

Inside CCW Safe Podcast- Episode 30: California Bail Reform and Florida Self Defense Immunity Laws

 

In this episode, Stan and Mike talk with Don West.  The three discuss a variety of issues, including ongoing bail reform in California, and the latest on self defense immunity laws in Florida.  

Runtime:53:56

Full Transcription will be available soon!

 

Inside CCW Safe Podcast- Episode 29: HR218 feat Gary Eastridge

In this podcast, Stan and Mike talk with Gary Eastridge, Critical Response Coordinator and Affiliate manager for CCW Safe.  

Gary is a retired law enforcement officer. He started with the Oklahoma City Police Department in February 1979 retiring in 2000 as an Inspector in the Homicide Unit. Gary also served as a department firearms instructor after receiving his CLEET certification in 1986. After retirement he worked as a police officer with the International Police Task Force (IPTF) in support of the United Nations Mission in Kosovo (UNMIK). Gary worked homicides with counterparts from 53 nations as well as mentoring local Police officers. Gary was named Chief Investigator for the Oklahoma County District Attorney’s office in January of 2007 where he served until his retirement in April of 2017 to accept his position with CCW Safe. He reviewed all officer involved shootings occurring in Oklahoma County as well as in custody deaths and other significant and high profile investigations / prosecutions.

Gary is helping head up our new HR218 plans, along with Mike and Stan. 

Full transcription:

Speaker 1: 00:01 Welcome to the inside. CCWSAFE podcast with founders, Stan Campbell and Mike Darter. If you're forced to fight the battle for your life, CCWCSAFE will fight the battle for your future.

Mike Darter: 00:22 Welcome to the inside CCWSAFE podcast, I'm Mike Darter in Oklahoma City.

Stan Campbell: 00:27 I'm Stan Campbell in California right now.

Mike Darter: 00:31 And we got Gary.

Gary: 00:33 Hey guys.

Mike Darter: 00:34 Gary's also in Oklahoma City.

Stan Campbell: 00:37 That's right.

Mike Darter: 00:38 So we normally do a weather report. I want to hear this, Stan? Is it nice out there?

Stan Campbell: 00:42 It really is kind of nice today.

Mike Darter: 00:45 You suck.

Stan Campbell: 00:46 It's like, it's like 68 degrees. It's kind of beautiful.

Mike Darter: 00:49 It's such a ... It's not bad here.

Stan Campbell: 00:52 Yeah. You know how it is though, but you know.

Mike Darter: 00:55 Yeah, yeah.

Stan Campbell: 00:56 Yeah.

Mike Darter: 00:59 What's been going on with you two, anything new on the CCWSAFE front, you guys?

Stan Campbell: 01:06 Well, we are, I mean, we're just all over the place. You know, we've been dealing with our awesome new clients over there in New York. Gary and I had been helping the NYPD retire guys in joining and welcoming them to the family. So we're real happy about that. And we have ladies day is coming up, right Gary? Ladies days coming up this next month. And that's in Orlando-

Gary: 01:37 A little over two weeks.

Stan Campbell: 01:39 That's right in Orlando, so if you guys are in Orlando area, make sure you stop by and see me at Gary because we'll be there with the ladies. We always sponsored that event, it's an awesome event there. And so I think something about 500 women show up.

Mike Darter: 01:53 Wow.

Stan Campbell: 01:54 You know, for safety and concealed carry classes, a little bit of everything, right Gary?

Gary: 01:59 Yeah.

Mike Darter: 02:00 Now, where is that at?

Gary: 02:03 It's at the Central Florida Rifle Pistol Club in Orlando. Just outside of Orlando, Florida. Good group. This is what, the fourth year I've think you've, we've been going down there.

Stan Campbell: 02:14 Yeah. We're pretty much their main sponsors and we understand the importance of supporting women in the industry. You know, female carriers, the numbers are going up and we welcome them with open arms so we make sure we get down there and support all of our affiliates down there.

Mike Darter: 02:36 That's cool. Then we also have the police week coming up as well in May.

Stan Campbell: 02:42 Yeah, police week. Yep.

Mike Darter: 02:44 What date is that?

Stan Campbell: 02:45 What's the dates, Gary?

Gary: 02:46 May 12th through May 16th. I just worked out my calendar up there on the white board, which is now full. The next about six weeks we're going to be really busy.

Stan Campbell: 03:00 That's right.

Mike Darter: 03:02 All right. So if you're going to be out in a police would come by and see us. We're going to have some pretty, some kind of cool stuff to give out there.

Stan Campbell: 03:09 That's correct. And then also myself, you, and Gary, we're going to be in California supporting Unite Inland Empire 2019 Conservative Conference. So we'll be out there. There's about thousand in attendance out there. It's being sponsored by AM590, The Answer. Those guys, they, we really help them out. They help us out. You know, we partner a lot. You got Phil with Firing Line radio show. I've been on there several times myself, Mike, our entire crew, I've had the opportunity to cohost, I have the opportunity to stand in as a host there on the radio show, and I mean they really take care of us. It's just, they're part of our family. So we're going out to support them with the United Inland Empire Conservative Conference 2019, so we'll be there also. That it's April 28th, so if you guys are in that area, believe it or not California is our number two state in reference to a membership base. So if you there in that area come through and see is there as well.

Mike Darter: 04:14 Yeah, it's going to be good time, man. I forgot about that.

Stan Campbell: 04:16 That's right.

Mike Darter: 04:17 That's coming up pretty quick too.

Stan Campbell: 04:18 Yeah, a lot going on.

Mike Darter: 04:20 So what are we talking about today?

Stan Campbell: 04:22 Well today we brought on Gary, because we want to kind of talk about, we've been going a lot of calls from retired policemen mostly, not truly having a good grasp on HR 218, the rules that apply, any changes that are being made there. So I wanted to bring Gary on to kind of talk about HR 218 and kind of break it down for folks, some myths, some problems, some things to watch out for. So it's really important that all three of us carry under that realm as well and it's important to know the do's and don'ts. So I wanted to bring Gary on for that reason.

Mike Darter: 05:08 Cool. So Gary, so what, do you have any specific questions we could like start out with that you've got, or do you just want to start going over what it is?

Gary: 05:20 Well, I think the important thing for everybody ... I think most officers have a general understanding of what's commonly referred to as HR 218 it's actually the law enforcement officers safety act. It was signed into law in 2004 by President Bush. It's been amended a couple of times over the last what, 15 years that it's been in existence. But it's really a pretty simple law. The HR 218 was the house resolution ... (silence) ... forces that I use myself of the NRA ... (silence) ... They're not fully on board with LEOSA because they don't have a whole lot of input with it. And that was, that's actually by design that ... (silence) ... offices they let her stay ... (silence) ... know the extended coverage for a corrections officers and ... (silence) ... to be able to carry a gun anywhere in the US ... (silence).

Mike Darter: 19:32 ... often. Thank God I got a couple of family members that are policemen there. But ... (silence).

Gary: 21:03 ... it multiplies your force. But I'm thinking, so what happens is if you have a jurisdiction that may not be pro gun, that wants more gun control, they see this as an extension of that. And this is one way they want to limit LEOSAs.

Stan Campbell: 21:29 Got You. Now and I'm just asking your opinion now, Gary, but what's your thoughts on, if it's not too big of a deal to back up with a concealed carry in a specific state that you visited a lot. Like you go to Virginia a lot, you and I go to Orlando, we all go to Vegas, you know, so Nevada and stuff like that. What's your thoughts on that?

Gary: 21:53 I have an Oklahoma permit. I don't see a downside to having the state permit. In reality it should not be necessary with LEOSA. If this bill passes, I'm not sure I will re-up my state permit, but I don't see a downside to having multiple permits.

Stan Campbell: 22:15 Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to get your opinion because I'm an advocate of getting the multiple permits as a backup. I mean it doesn't take much to do so. And if you do run into that green officer, somebody who's brand new and has no idea what LEOSA is, they, normally they know what concealed carry permit is. So that way you do have some type of backup as well. You have to think about how you engage, because no matter what, when we retire, it's a culture. So when you retire, I mean once a policeman, usually always a policeman, it's just in you. And you see something that goes wrong, you feel like you need to just jump in. So, you really have to be careful, and remember that hey I'm retired now. One of the things I might need to do before I just jump on into somebody's domestic or whatever the case may be, or try to make a citizen's arrest, because that's what's going to end up being, you might want to make sure you call 911 first too as an officer. Because we kind of move and think that we can handle something and then at times we'll get in over our heads as well. It doesn't take much.

Gary: 23:26 Yeah, absolutely. And then when the cops do show up, they're not going to know you from anybody.

Mike Darter: 23:33 No, that's right.

Gary: 23:34 I'm a firm believer as someone who carries under LEOSA and under a state permit, that before I'm going to intervene in a situation, someone has to be being hurt physically. I'm not going to try to stop a theft, I'm not going to try to stop an argument. I may watch it, call 911, tell them, hey this is getting ready to, this has potential to become violent. But I'm not gonna interject unless it becomes a, it's a matter of significant injury to somebody.

Stan Campbell: 24:15 Yeah, absolutely. And you know, I mean I think of it the same way, you know, any more because of politics and because of the gray areas, you have got to absolutely think about taking care of yourselves out there. Take a extra moment. You know, if it's not a Isis, al Qaeda situation, you're not talking about somebody gunning down people in the church, of course you have to just react to that. But if it is like something simple arguments, the domestics, you know it's not some serious violence going on, somebody steals a bag of Skittles, don't think that you have to be the hero on that. So yeah. So that's kind of where we are there. But anything else on that Gary, on any LEOSA issues?

Gary: 25:09 Well, I'm not being specific. I think it's incumbent on any officer who is eligible for LEOSA to carry under LEOSA, to research and know the law. Because you remember how it was when we were on the streets, Stan. We had a thumbnail idea of a lot of laws. We had a not a real good understanding of maybe other than the handful that we routinely enforce. As an officer, I think it's incumbent on you to learn LEOSA, plan ahead on how to respond to an officer who may not understand LEOSA. Research. When I started writing an article late last year only I was amazed at how much information is available on the Internet. And really even though it's not as simple as it seems, it's a pretty simple law.

Stan Campbell: 26:14 Yeah. Yeah. I mean-

Mike Darter: 26:19 One of the things I was going to say was one of the things we're creating for this, for our members that are going to be HR 218 is a membership card that will have information on that card for law enforcement should you have to display it. And it's going to be a card that states, the person carrying this card meets the requirements by LEOSA. You'll have to carry it with ... Gary, kind of talk about just right quick, the requirements, the things you have to have with that card.

Gary: 27:06 Yeah. The law requires you to have two things. It requires you to have a photo ID from the agency that you are or were a police officer at, excuse me, and proof of qualification within the last 12 months. So what I carry is my retired card and on the back of it I put on my qualification card. And every year, as long as it's, here in Oklahoma, it's CLEET, as long as a CLEET authorized instructor signs off and qualifies me, I update my card. That's the only two things that are required by the law for an officer to carry. Now if I were in a situation like with you, I would probably take a snapshot of that letter showing my 10 years plus service to just to confirm my eligibility under LEOSA.

Mike Darter: 28:11 Right. Yeah. So that's-

Gary: 28:14 Nowadays with smart phones it's so easy to carry all that with you that you can produce that and for that matter you can show them the actual law for those that don't understand.

Mike Darter: 28:27 Right. So that's what I carry now is I have another card that I have that I carry with my card that you signed on my qualification that's dated. And then I do have my police ID, or a copy of my police ID and I have a copy of that letter. So, and I'm actually looking forward to these cards cause they look awesome. Justin's done them.

Gary: 28:58 I was gonna say, our content guy is pretty good at that kind of thing.

Mike Darter: 29:01 Oh yeah, yeah. He's been killing it so. So I'm excited about this new plan coming out. I think it's going to be one thing with, generally with law enforcement officers, retired and former officers, we all know the possibilities of what can happen and it's going to be a good deal. The everything wrapped into it with the civil liability coverage and the extended bail and all that. So yeah, I'm excited to get it out.

Gary: 29:39 It's going to be a good product.

Mike Darter: 29:42 I've got, I've found one email that I'd like to, while I've got you guys on here, from Matt [Bell, 00:29:53] he sent in a copy of his umbrella plan document from his, and he said, "I listen to your podcast, episode number 26 I checked my umbrella policy, which I hoped would cover us in a self-defense situation. It appears that it does, but I would appreciate if you would confirm this. I," and he attached a document of his plan. And you know this is one thing that has kind of come up recently more and more and it's one thing that really for us to confirm it, we're not the ones that need to confirm it. Your insurance company is the one that's going to have to confirm this and here's what my take is on it for Mark and whoever else, or Matt and whoever else has this question, because it comes up a lot.

Mike Darter: 30:51 You have to remember that your insurance company, first of all, have you guys, I know you three have dealt with insurance in the past, correct?

Stan Campbell: 30:59 Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Gary: 30:59 Yes.

Mike Darter: 31:01 And when you're making a claim, they, whether it be a car or roof or whatever, they send adjusters out, they send people to come out and especially if it's a use of force situation, there will be attorneys involved for that insurance company. And here's my fear with anything that goes through an insurance company. I don't know about you guys, but my experience with insurance companies has not been, I mean it's been okay, I guess. I mean, I've been covered on things, but it's always not what you think you're gonna get back. There's always some, well, it was this, so that gets deducted, it isn't.

Gary: 31:58 And those attorneys are working with the interest of the insurance company, not the insured.

Mike Darter: 32:04 Right, and this is one thing when we created our service, when we first started this back in 2012 we said, we don't want to be grouped or seen as an insurance company because most states, if not all states, it's illegal to cover an intentional act or an illegal act with an insurance policy or coverage. So any attorney working on the behalf of an insurance company, I think it easily argue, even if your homeowner guy says, "Oh yeah, we're going to cover you," well, he's not the one that's going to be going to bat for you when that time comes, if you have to try to make a claim. The person who is going to be going to bat is going to be going to bat for the insurance company trying to deny that claim.

Gary: 33:08 Mike have, I've had several members asked that exact question and I told each of them to call their broker and get them to put it in writing. Of the ones that responded, 100% have told me that their agents said they would not cover a self-defense situation.

Mike Darter: 33:27 Yeah. So I just, I saw that come in and I just wanted to address that because I know we have that topic discussed a lot with you guys, especially with David, but you guys who are answering the calls and and all that. So-

Gary: 33:48 I think it gets down to that issue. Just like in New York and Washington state. Insuring for intentional acts.

Mike Darter: 33:56 Yup. Yup. So Matt, I would definitely say to check, Like Gary said, like Gary tells everybody, get it in writing. Call your insurance agent, get it in writing. I don't think they're going to put that in writing. So I didn't see any others. I thought I had some others that I had set aside on the, in reference to the podcast, but I can't find them now.

Stan Campbell: 34:25 So well, what would we do Mike, is being that we're not interviewing anybody on the next one. If we do one by ourselves, we'll make sure we'll have a list and we'll go through them as well.

Mike Darter: 34:36 Okay? Cool. All right guys. Well, Gary, thanks for your time, man.

Gary: 34:42 Enjoyed it.

Stan Campbell: 34:42 Thanks Gary.

Mike Darter: 34:42 Stan, good to see you again.

Stan Campbell: 34:46 I'll see you soon.

Mike Darter: 34:47 All right, man. Take care, bye-bye.

Stan Campbell: 34:47 All right, bye.

In Self Defense - The Jerome Ersland Case- The Line Between Self Defense And Murder

In this episode of "In Self Defense", Don West and Shawn Vincent talk about the Ersland case, and they interview special guest, Gary Eastridge.  Gary is the current Critical Incident Coordinator for CCW Safe, and is a former homicide detective with Oklahoma City Police Department, and former chief investigator for the Oklahoma County District Attorney's office.  

During the Ersland Trial, Gary was with the District Attorney's office, and one of his roles as chief investigator was to assist in high profile cases, with a support element to the prosecution team.  This is how he became familiar with the Jerome Ersland Trial.  

This is a great interview with some great information that can be very valuable to concealed carriers, or for anyone who owns a firearm for self defense. 

Runtime: 1:32:02

Inside CCW Safe Podcast- Episode 28: Interview with Larry Vickers

In this episode, Stan and Mike talk with Larry Vickers of Vickers Tactical.  They talk about Larry's history, his training, his new line of books and his new limited Vickers Tactical Glock that is coming out soon.  

Larry Vickers of Vickers Tactical is a retired US Army 1st SFOD- Delta combat veteran with years of experience in the firearms industry as a combat marksmanship instructor and industry consultant. In recent years he has hosted tactical firearms related TV shows with the latest being TacTV of which Bravo Company is a presenting sponsor. Larry Vickers special operations background is one of the most unique in the industry today.  He has been directly or indirectly involved in some of the most significant special operations missions of the last quarter century. During Operation "Just Cause" he participated in Operation Acid Gambit – the rescue of Kurt Muse from Modelo Prison in Panama City, Panama. As a marksmanship and tactics instructor while on active duty, he helped train special operations personnel that later captured Saddam Hussein and eliminated his sons Uday and Qusay Hussein. In addition he was directly involved in the design and development of the HK416, for Tier One SOF use, which was used by Naval Special Warfare personnel to kill Osama Bin Laden. Larry Vickers has developed various small arms accessories with the most notable being his signature sling manufactured by Blue Force Gear and Glock accessories made by Tangodown. In addition, he has maintained strong relationships with premium companies within the tactical firearms industry.  Some of these include: Blue Force Gear, BCM, Aimpoint, Black Hills Ammunition, Wilson Combat, Mile High Shooting, Red State Tactical, and Schmidt & Bender. He is also the author of the Vickers Guide series of firearms books.Larry Vickers travels the country conducting combat marksmanship classes for law abiding citizens, law enforcement and military personnel.  He has partnered with Aztec Training, to coordinate classes to meet the needs of students attending the class.  

For more information about Larry Vickers visit www.vickerstactical.com

Full transcription of this podcast will available soon!

 

 

Inside CCW Safe Podcast- Episode 27: Decisions feat. Steve Moses

In this episode, Stan and Mike talk to Steve Moses about the decisions we make as concealed carriers.  The three talk about everything from carrying a firearm, to the decisions we make while carrying, including complex decisions regarding self defense.  

The full transcription of this podcast is below. 

Speaker 1: 00:01 Welcome to the Inside CCW Safe Podcast, with founders Stan Campbell and Mike Darter. If you're forced to fight the battle for your life, CCW Safe will fight the battle for your future.

Mike: 00:11 Alright, welcome back to the Inside CCW Safe Podcast, I'm Mike Darter in Oklahoma City.

Stan: 00:26 Stan Campbell, I'm in Los Angeles today and the weather is fair, Michael.

Mike: 00:31 It's fair?

Stan: 00:33 It's fair.

Mike: 00:34 It's still cold here, man. Think we're gonna get snow here this weekend maybe. Or ice [crosstalk 00:00:39] somethin' somethin' somethin'.

Mike: 00:40 How's mama Mona doin'?

Stan: 00:43 You know, we haven't talked about mama Mona in a while.

Mike: 00:44 I know!

Stan: 00:46 She's still in the Dallas area, metro area. She relocated and she's doin' well, you know. I put that app on her phone so that I can keep track of where she is, so, you know it's really helpful especially if she ever has any emergencies and such, but she laughs, she gets tickled when I just call her out of the blue and say, "Oh, so you washin' your car now?", "Oh, so you at the Subway? Better be havin' something healthy!", so she loves the fact that I can follow her around and stalk her, so yeah. It's fun, but it's safe. If you guys have not seen the app, it's 360, right Mike?

Mike: 01:27 Yeah, Life360.

Stan: 01:28 Yeah, Life360 is a great app if you wanna really keep track of your family members and they can hit a panic-type button and let everybody know where they are, so it's awesome. I love it.

Mike: 01:44 Yeah, it's what I use with the girls in the past. So I have officially made a proposal to stay in, to add a mama Mona moment to our podcast where we call mama Mona, we present her with either situational awareness things or questions from our members.

Mike: 02:16 That's in the works, man. We're gonna have [inaudible 00:02:19] for mama Mona moments.

Stan: 02:21 Yeah, she's so sweet, but she really hasn't still just common sense.

Mike: 02:26 Oh man, yeah, she's got the common sense.

Stan: 02:29 She really does, I mean a lot of these questions and not all of them from members, some of them are from customers and some of them can get really outrageous just with the scenarios and we gonna allow mama Mona to answer the questions, "What if I see a baby with an AK47 pointing it at a grandmother?"

Mike: 02:46 "What if somebody chasin' me, tryin' to beat me with a dead squirrel?"

Stan: 02:51 Yes. We'll let mama Mona answer those.

Mike: 02:55 Well speaking of common sense, we have Steve Moses is on today, from Texas.

Steve: 03:01 Hey guys.

Mike: 03:01 And Steve's got some awesome articles recently. How you doin' Steve?

Steve: 03:06 Oh, I'm doin' well. I'm doin' well. It's good to be back talkin' to you guys.

Mike: 03:10 How's the weather in Texas? East Texas?

Steve: 03:13 Nasty.

Mike: 03:14 Is it?

Steve: 03:15 Nasty. Cold, damp, wet, you know, so, it's kind of a almost a sub-tropic environment here. It's very beautiful and everything, but the humidity is pretty high and when these cold fronts that come through Oklahoma and [inaudible 00:03:29] you guys get down here, we're not frigid, we're just miserable.

Mike: 03:34 Yeah, that's what it is here.

Steve: 03:38 Just miserable.

Mike: 03:40 So what are we talking about today Stan?

Stan: 03:43 Well today, I decided to ... we're having Steve Moses, he submitted a piece of writing that we were gonna look at as a article, but I thought that be so much better as a topic of discussion for the podcast, especially on the cuffs of having David Darter here, you don't know [crosstalk 00:04:06] last week we had Dave Darter talking about different things that comes up during customer service and question and stuff that we get a lot Steve. So we were kinda answering some of those scenario type questions and when I saw your submission I said, "Oh no. That's perfect for our topic of discussion today."

Stan: 04:31 Steve if you can kinda introduce what that is and why you even chose that topic.

Steve: 04:41 The title of the article I wrote was Boring Article, Serious Subject. It is kinda come to my mind where I've seen people carrying handguns in areas and locations where they probably shouldn't. Citing that old Maxim, "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6." I kinda got, "I really don't want to put myself in to a position where I am a D judged by 12 and perhaps I might lose my rights to possess a concealed handgun. Or worse, end up in prison." This is something that I've seen quite frequently and while I'm very much a believer that we should be armed to the extent that we can, it needs to be done lawfully and it needs to be done with some common sense.

Steve: 05:41 There are areas where it's basic, like in Texas, where concealed carry is banned, but by the same token, it's a criminal trespass issue primarily if you are accosted or that is discovered and then you're asked to vacate the premises and you do not do so. The penalty for that I don't consider to be something significant, we can always go back and leave. We can choose not to go to those kind of places. But on occasion there are places where all of us, I don't care who you are, need to go where being able to have a concealed handgun on your person is a bad idea, perhaps for a variety of reasons.

Mike: 06:31 And you know, we talked about that a little bit on the podcast, the last podcast with David, but there's also one other thing that I think we, everybody really needs to be honest with themselves about and this is Pat McNamara actually put it on his Instagram one day. Just because you have a gun does not mean you are armed. [crosstalk 00:06:58] And I think everybody needs to be, I mean including me, I mean everybody needs to be realistic and honest with themselves on if you're, just because you have a firearm does not mean you're armed.

Steve: 07:17 That's right.

Stan: 07:20 I love how he put that because you can take that in a couple of different ways because you can talk about mindset, that being relevant to mindset, that being relevant to your physical abilities to even defend your weapon or pull it out without somebody taking it from you, or the fact that you don't train at all.

Mike: 07:40 Right.

Stan: 07:41 There are so many different ways you can look at that so. Qaeda is on it there. Thanks for bringing that up Mike. Hey before we get too far, also 'cause I know Steve is gonna keep talking, I wanted to remind everybody Steve talked about that. As far as CCW Safe members, please understand this is a reminder. I think I did it last week, but I'm a do it again. As far as no gun zones, you will be outside of the scope of coverage if you are in a place where it is a felony or misdemeanor in itself to possess a firearm on the premises, okay. You will also be out of coverage if you challenge someone on private property, you know what I mean as a business owner or representative and you refuse to leave that property, standing up for second amendment rights, but deciding to take on that misdemeanor charge or trespassing. Those are the areas that you will not be covered.

Stan: 08:49 Now, if you are walking out after someone told you to leave and Isis comes in or Al-Qaeda, and you save the day we will cover you. If you're on the premises where you accidentally bypass a sign or they didn't have one up, and they didn't tell you to leave and someone comes in and robs the place and such, then you will be covered for that incident, defending yourself or another. I had to get that in because everybody calls in on that and they really want to know. Not to say, I know it seems like it happens a lot nationally, and we're not gonna say it not on the rise, but it doesn't happen as much and there's nothing wrong with people calling and having concerns about, "will you cover me if?", please understand that like Mike said, be armed. In those three areas, training, have your mindset right, and the physical ability to sustain that fight and protect your weapon. Go ahead Steve.

Steve: 10:00 Those are all excellent points. Those are very good points. One of the other things that occurred to me when I was thinking about writing this article is that in many instances there's places where it's just a bad idea to have your handgun on your person. If you're someone who's gonna go to a Superbowl party or go out to a bar and basically "Okay I don't have my handgun on my person while I'm actually in that place, but on the way back to wherever I came from, I do have my handgun on my place and I'm under the influence of alcohol," and if you're stopped that is a serious incident in and of itself and if you're forced to use any kind of force in order to defend yourself and it's later determined that "wow. You were under the influence of alcohol," that can be a big problem. To that end, I just thought we really need to exercise some good judgment when we go about our life. Life is not without risk. Every time we drive to a grocery store or we get on an airplane or anything else, there's always the risk that something can happen, but it many instances we can to some effect mitigate that risk by having good judgment, making good decisions, and following through.

Steve: 11:33 One of the things that I do know that a lot of concealed carriers do, actually I should say concealed carriers, I'll just say people do is they store their handguns in their vehicles. I believe there I read, let me see there, I think it was the guardian said, I can't recall the year, might have been like 2015 or so, that between 300,000 and 600,000 firearms reported as stolen. As people now have the right to carry guns on their person, what we're seeing is we're seeing a lot more guns in vehicles.

Steve: 12:16 People go to a place they go, "Well, I can't carry my gun in there. I'm just gonna stick it under here, under the car seat in the console, in the glove compartment and leave it. Then they're somewhat horrified when they come back and they see typically a window broken out, snatch and grab took place, and now that gun is missing.

Stan: 12:40 Yeah. That's terrible.

Steve: 12:43 It is bad. It is bad.

Mike: 12:46 That's one thing I looked at early on when we first started CCW Safe was different. At one time we had a little video on there, kinda some different products but, yeah you think about people just putting it in between the seat and the column or whatever. If you get in a wreck, that thing could be a flying object through that car.

Stan: 13:14 Projectile.

Mike: 13:15 I've gotten to where I've gotten the console vault in both my trucks now. Steve I don't know if you've heard of Gold Star Holsters?

Stan: 13:28 No I have not.

Mike: 13:29 They have a really cool deal that they sent one out. I'm actually ordering one for my P365, but they have a under the steering wheel where column now holstered that is actually like a Kydex holster. It's pretty cool. Those are the two that I would strongly recommend, vault or whatever for the console vaults and then this one is really cool. Actually I have, they sent me one for a Glock 19, Steve, I'm gonna send it down. Actually when you come up next week I'll get it to you.

Stan: 14:09 Okay. That sounds good, why don't you take a look at it. I'll take a look it at it.

Mike: 14:12 Yeah it's awesome. It's awesome. So is that what you, what do you use, Steve?

Steve: 14:18 Well actually when I'm in my car I keep my handgun on my person. I keep it in a holster. If something happens, I know where that handgun is going to be. I don't feel like "Okay. Oh where's that handgun?" So I'm trying to find it under bad circumstances. To that end, I keep my handgun on my person. I typically carry appendix which is very easy to drive with. If you get a good holster and you actually put the bottom of the seatbelt over the holster, blouse your shirt over it and then if for some reason you're forced to use your handgun while you're still in your car, it's there.

Steve: 15:05 However, when I go to leave my car I want that handgun completely out of sight. There's some really inexpensive options for doing this. I mean some of them start at less than $30. They're just super lock boxes. They're made of metal. They're padded. They have a three digit combination lock and they come with a cable that allows you to loop the cable around the frame of your automobile seat so that you can then store the handgun in there, lock it, and put it underneath your car seat. Some of these are relatively inexpensive under $30. They go up in price and probably robustness. Probably the more robust they are, the more they're going to defy any attempt to open 'em.

Steve: 16:05 For the most part, people that break into and enter into cars, burglarize cars, they're moving pretty fast. They don't have the tools it would take to free that storage safe from it. I don't wanna say you can't break in to it, but it's gonna be pretty difficult. Most of you know, burglars don't carry around a set of bolt cutters, those are hard to explain in the event that you run into a police officer, especially if you have a background. But something just as small as that can go a long ways towards securing a handgun inside of a vehicle.

Steve: 16:46 Yeah, that's awesome.

Mike: 16:48 I've had those that have the cable that wrap around like seat post lock into it ... Yep, yep.

Steve: 16:56 Yes sir. One of the things I might add is that it requires discipline in order to always do this. Having good intentions and then failing to following through, that's not gonna get you what you want. It may take a little bit of time in order to get that handgun safely out of the holster or however you carry it. Basically, something I've really encouraged all of our listeners to do is to make sure that you have taken some formal training from a qualified instructor so you know how to get handguns in and back into the holster safely.

Stan: 17:37 That's right.

Steve: 17:38 You have to do it the same way every single time. It needs to be done so that trigger finger is straight, you're concentrating on what you're doing, you're not multi-tasking. And when you withdraw that handgun and you insert that handgun back into the holster, you don't wanna be muzzling any of your own body parts.

Stan: 17:57 That's right. You know we had a member just recently send a email, I think I shared it with you Steve, in which he listened to you the last time you were on the podcast and he signed up for one of your classes 'cause I think he was just within 30 miles of you.

Steve: 18:15 That's correct.

Stan: 18:16 It got just like Steve said and I'll have him again share a list of qualified instructors, firearms instructors, that he would use or that he has gone to their classes and actually verified that they are legit or significant in the industry. Make sure we'll share that stuff with you, as well.

Stan: 18:41 But like Steve said, it's absolutely important to get that training. I train police officer 15 years and even they don't have as much time as they should on protecting their firearm, getting it in and out of the holster, establishing that "muscle memory" and preparing for someone that is intentional about hurting you. That doesn't happen to often in your lifetime, but a traumatic attack when someone that is really, they have that thing, either some liquid courage I call alcohol, or some type of drug that takes them to a place where they're not thinking sensibly or they're just have decided that you are the target and they're gonna execute an attack ... It doesn't happen often, but when it does you have to be ready to go beyond just verbal commands. Something you might have to be prepared to do, especially for a surprise attack or ambush type situation, you have to be prepared to respond to these things.

Stan: 20:00 Seek out a lot of training on the range. Go ahead and invest into a training firearm, I'm talkin' maybe a little rubber gun or something like that that's similar to what you carry and then you and your buddies get together in a safe manner just wrestle around. Get out the house and put it some time where somebody's trying to get your weapon so you can figure out what am I gonna do?

Stan: 20:29 In case and point, I was really hard on the officers. If there's any listening, they really, you'll vouch for this. I was hard on the officers and I would literally, this is no joke, some of the other instructors look at me like I was crazy, but I would slap them so hard when I get on their gun and they wouldn't knock my hand off of it. Just something as simple as that. So I would hit 'em and give them some physical encouragement so that they know that this is serious. There's a couple of training recruits that I made cry, boys and girls. I made 'em cry, but it's so that you train in a sterile environment and as much as you can try to make it so that this is real.

Stan: 21:14 You need to practice the fight for your life so that you know when you actually do, you can handle a three minute fight or protect your weapon, or even while you on the ground, try to figure out how would I pull it out of my holster if someone is on top of me. How do I adjust my body? These are really really important things that we spend really not enough time. You still need to spend a lot of time on the range and in target shooting, but no one spends time trying to figure out, what would actually happen if? What would I do? Same thing with the training weapon, I keep saying training weapon because I don't want nobody accidentally shooting their friend. What would I do if I just parked somewhere in my garage and someone opened up my door and came inside my drivers side door and pinned me to my passenger side door where I couldn't get my firearm out and I still got my seatbelt on. These are those things that don't happen often, but when they do, if you have a plan you got a better chance of surviving attack like that.

Steve: 22:18 That's actually awesome, awesome advice. I'm glad you said that. That's something that should probably be discussed in a future article or podcast. Having the experience and the skills and the ability what Stan is referring to, not only does it better prepare you for such an incident, it also puts you in a position where if you have those skills and you know how you would probably properly respond, it makes one less likely to prematurely go to the handgun when they think "Wow, this person is about to unleash some violence on me. My only response is gonna be I go to my handgun, and then it turns out I was wrong. There was video I did it prematurely. Now I'm facing a brandishment issue."

Stan: 23:14 Oh we've had several of those. Really, these people, they were lucky Steve, that we had the resources to handle their mistake. You guys gotta be careful out there because those mistakes cost 10,000 to start with and then it goes up from there. If you dip too far away from us and go outside of coverage, then you're on your own and that sucks. We want to do everything in our power to take care of you and that's why we give you guys these articles and podcasts and different things so you can learn from the mistakes of others. Learn from the challenges of others. Don't make you that guy because that guy, it hurts when somebody says "Will the defendant please stand." Nobody wants to hear that. Nobody.

Stan: 24:09 Be mindful of those things and before Steve steps back in, I passed up a few things that they said something significant, he and Mike. I'm one when I'm in the car I like to carry on hip as well, but I too, I carry secondary weapons. I have a real nice seven, eight inch, I think it's an eight inch knife that my door, right inside my drivers side door, I have an additional one over on my passenger side and some other thing I hold up in different areas of my car so that if I do get pushed down somewhere and Michael calls it, what did you say? I ball up into a fetal position? I'm a pretty tough guy but, if I get caught slippin', I know that if I got pushed into a fetal position, which is not my go to position, but if I got pushed into a fetal position because someone got the jump on me at the gas station or whatever, I fall into a position and a space where there's another weapon that I'm gonna do some major damage so that I can get to my gun. So those are things you guys to think about-

Steve: 25:29 That's awesome.

Stan: 25:29 Plus, Steve talked about carrying a gun in places where you cannot, or not carrying because you know you can't carry a firearm. But don't forget those who are CCW Safe members, we cover you for any legal weapon. If you can't carry a firearm and you have another legal weapon or weapon of opportunity or even physical force to defend the life of yourself or another, we got you covered. That's one of the reasons why when Mike and I designed these models and the police union model, we made sure that we said "Okay. We need to cover these guys like we had coverage when we were in the police department." There were times we couldn't use, like at the state fair, there's so many people that you wouldn't dare pull your gun out and start shooting in that direction where there's a suspect, plus 50 people behind 'em depending on your distance.

Stan: 26:27 There's other things that we have to have or weapons of opportunity have been used to take a life on the police department with like flashlights and such. A lot of officers had to feel people flashlights. These two of the things that we would if there was cement screw you had to pick up and defend your life, we got you. We got you covered. Anyway, that's what I kinda wanted to talk about coverage. The people, they really like to know how deep that goes, Steve. So go ahead and continue sir.

Steve: 26:56 Excellent. Well one of the things I kinda wanted to touch on is that the inexpensive safes that I'm referring to. While they should secure a firearm in most instances, they're not quick access. If you want something that's quick access and also secure, then you're probably looking at additional funds and I have zero issue with that. One of the things that I do kinda like about these more inexpensive lock boxes with the cable is that if you are staying in a place other than your home, let's say for instance it's a travel trailer, it's a hotel room, and you want to be able to secure our handgun from reasonable efforts to have it stolen or to keep children from accessing it, this same lock box can be used to secure the handgun, loop the cable around the doorframe. I'm sure that listeners can find other ways to do that, but that also affords you another means of keeping that handgun secure when it's not on your person.

Steve: 28:13 Something that's really important is whether you store a handgun in a vehicle or not. I try to avoid stickers and decals that say things such as "I don't call 911", "Driver only carries $20 worth of ammunition", I try to keep those kinda decals off my vehicle because I think that's just kind of a advertisement that says burglarize me first. I think that's probably a good way to go and also it just makes common sense. Don't leave other items out there that either have decals on your vehicle, but you have like uh you left your cell phone out there. You left the obvious charging cord for maybe a garment or a TomTom or a purse. Or anything that looks like it might hold something of value because it doesn't take any time at all for an experienced criminal to break into your car, grab that particular item, and they're gone. I mean, car alarms are such that we hear 'em going off all the time and what happens when we hear a car alarm going off in a parking lot most of the time? We ignore it.

Stan: 29:32 We disregard it, yeah.

Steve: 29:33 Somebody was looking for their vehicle. The thing is, anything you can kinda do to keep your vehicle sort of under the radar, be kind of the gray man if you will, I think that helps. The other thing too is think about where you're gonna park your car. Think about it in advance. Are there locations where your car is more likely to be broken into than others? Give that some thought. The closer I can get to a store entrance when I park, that's a good thing. I like parking under lights. I just try to take all those things into consideration that is just not a good idea to put your handgun in a position where others can get it. The numbers, a matter of fact, I believe it was in Memphis that I think the number is over a thousand handguns possibly, or firearms are stolen from vehicles every year.

Stan: 30:35 Oh my god.

Steve: 30:35 That is, people are losing a lot of guns. In some instances from what I understand, people are leaving handguns in cars and the cars are unlocked.

Stan: 30:48 That's right.

Steve: 30:48 Just take all this in to consideration. These gun safes are not that expensive and a little bit of foresight can really save you a lot of trouble later.

Stan: 30:59 That's right.

Mike: 31:00 Hey Steve, can those boxes also the safes, the small safes, can those also be used to transport on planes? Do you know what the policy of that by chance?

Steve: 31:15 I'm gonna say that the small ones probably can. I probably need to verify that. I believe that I read that that is the case. But that's also a very, very good way to secure a hand gun, I think the main thing is TSA need to be able to access it. And I'm not sure exactly how that would work with the three digit combinations. By the same token, when I fly I use a three digit combination padlock. I know TSA can access those, but I'm not sure if that's the case on this. We probably just need to check that out before answering.

Stan: 31:54 Yeah, make sure you check the rules and regulations associated with each airline that you fly 'cause all of them a little bit different. Also, to piggyback what Steve was just making reference to, I've said this in other podcasts as well, have a plan when you leave your house. There's two things that you shouldn't do at night. Plan to do them during the day. That is to get gas and go to the ATM so that you have a better chance of not being targeted.

Stan: 32:26 The other thing, even if you have these boxes and stuff like that, I always say you stopping at the mall, you stop somewhere, if it's a planned stop, stop about two blocks away. Pull over to the side, put your gun in your box, put your purses in your trunk so that people don't see you do these things when you pull up to the mall, and different stuff like that because the greatest point of vulnerability is when you're trying to concentrate on how to store your firearm. Now you've got your head down and doin' different things like that. When you get to the store, you should be ready just to pop out, look around, like Steve said, find a great spot to park, look around make sure there's no strange looking people out, or people out of place. Then get out and go in to the store, making sure your stuff is locked up and there's nothing visible to be stolen. Thanks Steve for all that.

Steve: 33:26 Excellent point. Excellent, excellent point.

Stan: 33:28 Well Steve I have a million of 'em. Thank you.

Steve: 33:40 I don't doubt. And anyway, a big part of it is kinda look at the overall picture. Life in many ways in kind of a strategy. It's like okay, my ultimate plan here is I want to be as trained as I can. I want my practice to have been current. I want to be familiar with the laws regarding the use of force, regardless of where I am. When I'm out in the public, to the extent that I can, I want to be armed. When I can't do that, I want my guns secured. I want to minimize the time that I'm at at-risk locations. Sometimes I realize that cannot be avoided. But, the main thing is just kinda try to use common sense and then in addition to common sense, this is one of the things I really try to drive home with my students, is then you've got to use discipline. When you're tired, or it's raining, or you're cold, or you wanna get something done, saying "You know what? I'm just not gonna do what I know is smart this time," I think that's a slippery slope that you're going down to.

Steve: 34:53 I just really encourage all the listeners, I would encourage this to anybody, is just use good judgment, but then always, always, always, follow through if you can.

Stan: 35:05 That's right. Michael you're up.

Mike: 35:11 I'm just listening, man.

Stan: 35:16 Listen, you know you got a million things to say.

Steve: 35:20 Stan, I have something to say.

Stan: 35:22 Uh oh.

Steve: 35:24 This is going back to the comment you made about the use of a defensive knife.

Stan: 35:30 Yes, sir.

Steve: 35:31 I absolutely subscribe to that. I keep a knife on my person any time I'm not in the hospital doin' somethin' related to being a nose guy. I keep a knife on my person. The ability to use that as a force multiplier, especially for females who in many ways a lot of them are assaulted way different than males are. A lot of times with females, and this is maybe even true for smaller males, is that the other person is more prone to just using physical force in order to force their will and get what they want, as opposed to the threat of using a handgun in order to accomplish that. Having that knife on your person, close access, and having it in a position where I can access it or it can be accessed relatively quickly, and knowing how to use it when you're in an entangled situation, man those are awesome skills. If you have that ability in order to do that and you have nothing in your hands more than a really robust stainless steel ink pen, you're well armed.

Stan: 37:01 Absolutely.

Steve: 37:01 You can do a lot of damage with that ink pen in terms of putting the other person in a situation where they're forced to break contact or they can't continue doing whatever it was when they were attempting to injure you, sexually assault you, or kill you for that matter.

Stan: 37:22 That's right. Hey Mike what is the name of the ... The name just escapes me. What's the name of the bracelet that you and I wear?

Mike: 37:35 Oh, the underarm, I mean the Leatherman Tread?

Stan: 37:36 Yes, that's right. The Leatherman Tread, if you don't know what that is, pick one up because it's a very, very cool looking piece and it has a lot of tools and stuff on it, but I wear it a lot because it too, I've learned how to adjust it to make it a impromptu weapon. It's one of my favorite ones to wear on the planes. I open it open and drop it down to almost cover my knuckles if I had to deal with something like that. There's a different way you can carry it with the tools that you can use as almost a cutting type device to defend yourself if somebody got you wrapped up and they tryin' to go for your gun and you take it and you just kinda rip a portion of skin across the top of their forehead and make 'em bleed into their eye. Poke and do anything you need to do. You really have to have the mindset to say, "if you're going for my gun, I am going to bite pieces of your cheek out. I'm gonna pull your eyeball out." You gotta be ready to do all those things.

Stan: 38:45 When I talked about the training and the academy, I'm really not playing about that. One of those individuals who could not get me off of his gun, five years later, he answered a call here in Oklahoma City in which he was attacked. It was a robbery call and they said the guy only had a knife so he got out, he wasn't prepared. The guy ended up physically attacking him, taking his gun from him, standing over top of the officer, and shooting at him while he was on the ground. While he twisted and turned, only the hand of God saved that officer from being injured 'cause that guy was right above him and he wasn't shot. The bottom line to the story is it's very serious. You are carrying around a tool of death and destruction and you need to act like it. You need to be able to protect it. Think about these different things. Pick up the pens, the things that can be used as impromptu weapons to protect yourself in the secondary.

Steve: 40:09 You know Stan, there was actually a tactical pen that I saw at the shot show this year called the Impromptu.

Stan: 40:17 Really? Pull that out.

Steve: 40:19 Yes, it's made by Gerber. It's actually a decent writing instrument. It actually is one of the click pens so it's not one of the ones you have to take it in two pieces and everything. Something like that in your hand, especially if you know how to use it and your target is forehead and eyes, that's a pretty awesome tool for doing that. If you don't have anything else, especially recommend this to people that are having to walk to their cars at nighttime after dark. Just simply having that pen in your hand and an understanding of few very, very basic moves can go a long ways towards making sure that you're less likely to be injured or worse.

Stan: 41:14 I love that. I think I'm a get that one. I just saw a picture of it on the internet.

Mike: 41:19 Yeah, I pulled it up. I pulled it up too while [crosstalk 00:41:22]

Stan: 41:22 Impromptu technical pen.

Steve: 41:24 Yes, sir.

Stan: 41:25 I like those.

Steve: 41:25 Yeah, you're timing is awesome.

Stan: 41:28 Yeah I actually keep something similar to that on my visor, but I like that one. I'm a get that.

Stan: 41:37 Oh, thank you sir. Yeah, you know what you're right. That's one of those things, what can I carry on the airplane?

Stan: 41:42 You guys, it's really important to do all these things and to prepare. Always remember, Steve talked about it before in one of his last podcast about training with jiu jitsu and some type of martial arts and keeping yourself physically ready to defend yourself. No matter how old you get, you have to figure it out for your body type and what you do to be able to defend yourself. Don't just walk around and grow old into a victim. Get yourself ready and do what you can to survive. Just really important to seek out these instructors. Physical martial arts type training should go side by side with firearms training. It's a close cousin and it too will save your life. You have to do these things.

Mike: 42:38 Yeah and I would just tell people too, look back over some of our articles, especially from Steve. In the podcast we had Steve on not too long ago, we talked one about gear. But also Bob O'Connor, his series. If you just search Bob O'Connor you'll pull up some of his articles as well. You have one on the principles of concealed carry and one being mindset. So we definitely have things on our side that can kind of point you in the right direction. Ultimately it's going to come down to you as a concealed carrier, taking it upon yourself to do some of these things that we're recommending because I do strongly believe everything we've said here today, I totally believe in. When I saw that post by Mac it was like, it's so true that just because-

Stan: 43:46 [crosstalk 00:43:46] Mac's social media, he'd be great to follow because-

Mike: 43:50 Yeah, he would.

Stan: 43:50 We're talking about a hero in training. I don't know anybody that goes as hard as Mac.

Mike: 43:57 I think it is ... let me look it up right quick. TMA on Instagram, he does a lot of stuff on Instagram and it is TMACSINC. That's Pat McNamara. He's got some really good drills and for law enforcement he's got some great shooting drills with sandbags and doing things along with the shooting. I haven't seen much of those on there lately. He had a lot of those in the past.

Stan: 44:42 Yeah he's mixing up, but you definitely need to follow him. He's the real deal and you talk about extreme training, you just take what he does and kinda dumb it down for your body type and level. You can really, really increase your abilities just by getting a lot of that stuff done. It's really hard to not train static, but it really is important to raise your heart rate because if somebody surprise attacks you, everything is gonna shut down and your body is gonna prepare for trauma. So your body prepares for war, but in doing so there's things happening in your body that you're not gonna be able to control, so you gotta try to recreate that or get it as close as you can to that and see how you respond when you shoot a firearm at that time. Those are really, really important to do so find people.

Stan: 45:41 You know Pat and you know of course Vicars and all the rest of our guys. Jeff Gonzalez and Spalding and some of the others that we subscribe to and that are associated with CCW Safe as well. Just find these trainers and put in the work. Put in the work so that when you get attacked, you don't have to.

Mike: 46:02 And speaking of, we're actually having Larry on next week, I believe.

Stan: 46:07 That's right. [crosstalk 00:46:09]

Mike: 46:10 I'll reach out to Pat too and probably get him on.

Stan: 46:13 That would be awesome.

Mike: 46:15 He's got a really good deal talking about personal protection detail, controlling your own personal protection detail. And he's got some really good-

Stan: 46:30 Be your own body guard.

Mike: 46:31 Short videos on those. What was that?

Steve: 46:38 I think you said being your own body guard.

Stan: 46:40 Yeah, be your own body guard. But it derives from the sentinel, correct Mike?

Mike: 46:46 Yeah, he has a book called the Sentinel that I would say if you haven't read that, get it. You can get it on Amazon. I think you can get a digital format, it's just a short read. It's a very short read, but it's just on being your own sentinel for you and your family. Developing personal protection details, plans, and it's just a great blueprint for your own personal safety plans.

Stan: 47:20 Absolutely.

Mike: 47:22 Lets talk about, are there any other social media that you follow, Steve, that you would recommend for people?

Steve: 47:36 I'll tell you what, I like Greg Ellifritz. A lot of the information he puts out I find very sound. There's another instructor that actually did a interview with him and submitted an article, named Cecil Burch. Cecil Burch, he has a company called Immediate Action Combatives and he is very much dialed into just the short range, a realistic approach to dealing with a situation in where your near contact distance or contact distance in such a manner that regardless of your age and almost your physical condition, you can do things that lessen the chances that you're going to be taken out of the fight immediately. Basically, you can pick your skills and use them as a speed bump in order to gain some time and then turn the odds back into your favor. So I follow him, anything by Craig Douglas. Another guy named Paul Sharp. These guys, they blog, they post on Facebook and I pretty much read everything that they do very carefully. Tom Gibbons, y'all have heard me talk about him multiple times. With range master, he has a monthly newsletter. Always got some good articles in that. Another person that I follow is Carl Wren KR training. He is a retired college professor, grand master IPSC shooter and a basically a full time trainer. Just very, very, very bright. Very articulate. Very analytical. I just kinda listen to what these guys have to say and they're not all guys.

Steve: 49:36 Melody is someone whenever she posts something, she especially kind of tuned in to the perhaps a female perspective on self defense. She's a relatively small female and what she has done and can do, she's very-

Mike: 49:53 Who's that?

Steve: 49:54 In to Melody Lauer.

Mike: 50:00 Lauer?

Steve: 50:02 Lauer. LAUER I believe.

Mike: 50:05 And then what was Cecil Burch's training program called?

Steve: 50:11 Immediate Action Combatives.

Mike: 50:15 Okay.

Steve: 50:15 Yeah, very, very, very articulate. Very articulate, I mean everything he says is very insightful and it's doable. There's no cool ninja commando stuff in his program. It's largely based upon common sense. He's got outstanding martial arts background in addition to his firearms background. He's a ... Golly, he's a ... I'm not sure how many stripes he has, but he's a black belt in Brazilian jiu jitsu under Megaton. And so-

Mike: 50:52 Where is he at? Missouri?

Steve: 50:54 Out of Phoenix, Arizona.

Mike: 50:57 Oh Phoenix, okay.

Steve: 50:59 Phoenix, Arizona. Matter of fact, he's not too far from Ernest Langdon. He and Ernest are acquainted. I try to read that stuff all the time. I'd rather kinda learn a lot of that material through their experience as opposed to my experience, 'cause you know what, a lot of experience I've gained is a kind of specific to me and some of it has been kind a painful acquiring so, I'd rather, I like to read that kinda stuff and say "oh wow, this guy found himself in that situation. This is how he dealt with it, or this is how he or she believed they could have dealt with it better. Okay." I filed that away in my mental Rolodex which means that okay, I've seen this. This is something that I can use to benefit myself if I find myself in what appears to be a like scenario.

Mike: 51:52 You know that's some good stuff. I was pulling a lot of these up as you were talking about 'em. This is something that we should start doing, Stan. Start recommending some of these, some of the people that we follow, and some of the other companies that we're dealing with now.

Stan: 52:16 Yeah, I love that.

Steve: 52:17 There's a lot of good instructors out there and one of the things that I've noticed a trend towards is that we're seeing more of the, how should I say this, works for practical self defense scenarios. When I first started training which was in 1993, the premise was that the guy was always gonna have a revolver held at belly level and he's gonna be wearing a ski mask. Okay so that's how we always trained and everything that we ever shot was a guy like that. And then we got in to the whole tactical side of that, which was cool. Tactical carbines, shotguns, team tactics, high risk entry, vehicle defense, did a bunch of that. And that was cool too. But, I always kind of saw myself when I did this, I think I'm kind of like a grownup kid here. I'm having a great time and I'm sure some of these skills could be useful to me at some point, but I'm not sure exactly when.

Steve: 53:24 Now we're seeing a trend where we have so much video out there, John Corriea has done a wonderful job of a, and hopefully I pronounced his name correctly, of getting out a lot of video on situations where people had to defend themselves against perhaps a beat down, a stabbing, a robbing, a kidnapping. Now we can kinda see what's happening in these real life situations. And so our training now has become more specific to dealing with those kind of situations which I think this is probably one of the best times ever for a concealed carrier to be investing in training.

Stan: 54:07 That's right.

Steve: 54:14 [crosstalk 00:54:14] There's a lot of good stuff out there, a lot of good stuff out there. Sorry I interrupted.

Mike: 54:18 That's all right. Just Stan wanted to, you had sent a text saying you wanted to cover, you wanted to address some email or something?

Stan: 54:26 Yeah, just real quick. Mike and I, we always suggest you guys call in and give us some feedback on the podcast and all the stuff that we're doing to help you become your own risk manager. So real quick, want to give a shout out to a few people starting off with Clip Beasley, he's a supportive one, his quote was "Today I unlocked my phone and the start of your podcast, it began playing." He was really excited, he listened to it. He says he really appreciates the things that we're doing and it's very positive, our association. He kinda gave us a big shout out for what we doing with the podcast and said kudos. Then we have Michael W. From North Carolina. He's a former law enforcement officer. He retired from North Carolina state LEO and he says that "I gained a lot of insight from your messages. I recently switched from," I'm not gonna name the company, "and have gained more from CCW Safe in a month than I did from them in almost two years. Please continue to podcast."

Stan: 55:43 And then finally, from J Ralsh in Virginia, it's a pretty long one, I'm not gonna read all of it, but he said, "Gentlemen, I want to let you know I'm enjoying the new podcast. Informative, interesting, and continue drill down the critical factors of self defense. Same goes for the articles, videos, and online training you provide." He had a story where, following listening to the podcast, he actually had a incident, a road rage incident and a guy jumped out who had, getting in front of him. He jumped out and started coming back toward his car. He had positioned himself tactically already and he put it in reverse and backed away. And then he did 20 feet first and then kept coming 20 more feet until the guy got frustrated and got back in his car. He said, then is quote states, "I want to let you know your hard work and dedication has paid off. Education is key for CCW Safe carriers and most don't have nearly enough as they should. Keep up the good work and thank you for what you do for the community."

Stan: 56:45 So I want to let you guys know we appreciate that. Keep sending in your stories. We love to hear that you know you're using your head to avoid these incidents. You're planning ahead so not to be in these situations and you're not launching yourself into deadly force situations when you have the power to remove yourself. So thanks a lot for those who are listening and having successful outcomes and not changing their lives with a deadly force incident.

Mike: 57:16 Yeah, that's awesome to hear. We love hearing those stories because it's just awesome to hear that people are, they're getting something out of the articles, out of the podcast, so forth. So yeah, keep those coming in.

Mike: 57:32 All right, well we're right at about an hour. Anybody have anything to add?

Steve: 57:38 I tell you what, I thought this was a good topic. I know it is not real sexy in terms of, okay you just need to be able to secure your gun and everything, but think it's really important and I hope this is of some benefit to our listeners.

Mike: 57:59 And I think it's something, it's just not, it's something that a lot of people don't think about and a lot of people may not want to think about it, but like you said, it is very important. You have to think about all these things we've talked about today.

Mike: 58:19 Steve, thanks for coming on again. I'm sure we'll, well I'll see you next, I'll see you Monday, right?

Steve: 58:25 Yes, sir.

Mike: 58:27 And Stan, I will see you next week.

Stan: 58:31 Yes, sir. [crosstalk 00:58:34]

Mike: 58:35 All right. You guys take care.

Steve: 58:35 Okay guys. Be safe out there.

Stan: 58:35 Thank you.

Mike: 58:35 Bye, take care.

Inside CCW Safe Podcast- Episode 26: Customer Service feat. David Darter

In this episode, Stan and Mike talk with CCW Safe Accounts Manager, David Darter.  They talk about some of the most common questions from our members and prospective members, and some of the best practices for getting help with your account.  

Full Transcription below!

Speaker 1: Welcome to the Inside CCW Safe podcast with founders Stan Campbell and Mike Darter. If you're forced to fight the battle for your life, CCW Safe will fight the battle for your future.

Mike: Okay. All right. Peter Gordon.

Mike: Hi, welcome back to the Inside CCW Safe podcast. I'm Mike Darter with CCW Safe in Oklahoma City. Here, we're with Stan Campbell.

Stan Campbell: Yeah, Stan Campbell holding down Los Angeles today.

Mike: You're what?

Stan Campbell: I said I'm holding down Los Angeles, sorry about that.

Mike: Holding down Los Angeles. I hit my little mute button to turn off all ... I'm turning off all my phones and beeps and stuff, and I accidentally hit the mute button on my computer which muted you.

Mike: So, Stan man, it's been freezing here. We've been like had two school days.

Stan Campbell: You said two school days?

Mike: Two no school days.

Stan Campbell: Oh, two no school days. Yeah, you guys have ice storms out there, right?

Mike: Yeah, it's been crazy. But I think today it's supposed to get up to like 40. So, it should be pretty good. What's LA like?

Stan Campbell: LA is kinda overcast. It's not that pretty, but it's no ice. I haven't seen ice over there. No ice.

Mike: Good deal. Anything else going on recently we need to know about?

Stan Campbell: No. I mean, we're following the ... And we will get to talk about it at a later podcast, but we're following the constitutional carry that just got passed here in Oklahoma, and that's a good thing.

Mike: Yeah. I think it goes in November?

Stan Campbell: Yeah. November 1st is gonna be when it pushes through. So, that's a good thing. It's always good to hear some governors willing to stand up for those who support the Second Amendment and take care of concealed carriers and such.

Mike: Yeah. I didn't know that was even going through until yesterday. I know it went through last year and then the governor didn't sign it. But, cool.

Mike: Well, today we got on my brother. My real brother, not my first [inaudible 00:02:23].

Mike Darter: Not a brother from another mother.

Stan Campbell: They're brothers from the same mother. Brothers from the same mothers.

Mike: David Gardner, he's our account manager. David, thanks for coming on.

David Darter: You bet.

Mike: Thank you, Dave.

David Darter: Good to see you around.

Mike: Did you still end up in the city as well, fighting this ice?

David Darter: Yeah, I already fell yesterday. I busted my butt.

Stan Campbell: That's not good. Well, what, as long as it wasn't on CCW Safe property, I'm okay with it. So get back to work, Dave. Get back to work.

David Darter: That's hilarious.

Stan Campbell: For those who don't know, I mean, we always talk about our support staff. You guys heard about, we had just added Justin. The usual suspects, Don and Gary, but behind the scenes, who really keeps this thing moving and who coordinates all the efforts of customer service is David Darter. He is the star really of CCW Safe because if you're not involved in a critical incident and they need our support because of an arrest or use of force to defend your life, you're dealing with just simple issues of customer service and just simple questions that you just might have if you just chose to join us without really learning about us. And David is the one who really ... He holds down that position and he does an awesome job with our customers.

Stan Campbell: I really love having him in that position and being over the specialist, just coordinating all the efforts and all the help with the members in our CCW Safe family. I just wanna let you guys know, David is a rockstar.

David Darter: Thank you, Stan. I appreciate that.

Stan Campbell: No, it's okay.

David Gardner: We take a great pride in our customer service.

Stan Campbell: Yeah. That's true. And what, David, I was really trying to invest. That was the opening for Michael to list. It's obvious that there's some big brother, little brother issues going on here, where he can't give you a simple account-

Mike: This is what happened. I'd just plugged in my headphones at the time he said that 'cause I didn't know if my mic was picking up you coming over the deal. So, I was like, "Maybe I'll just talk to my headphones." I'm taking them off now because it's like watching a-

Stan Campbell: A Chinese movie?

Mike: ... a 1970s movie. So I didn't hear what you said.

Stan Campbell: That's hilarious.

Mike: There you are. Now you're talking in your mouth.

Stan Campbell: Yeah, we're here Michael.

Mike: So yeah, he is a rockstar.

Stan Campbell: Yeah, he is.

Mike: He does great with our customer service, and that's one of the things that ... It's hard when you're dealing with tens of thousands of members and trying to provide good customer service for a nationwide covering. It's very hard to do that. I know that some of our competitors have the same issues that we do, but I think we handle ours very well and I think that we have a very good handler of our customer support, and a lot of it is because of David.

Stan Campbell: Absolutely. David, and David sorry, we're gonna talk about you first. So David, he is the accounts manager, and of course, like I said, he's over the CCW Safe specialists who get your non-emergency calls. If I had to really do an estimate, I'd say about 98% of the calls for service are non-emergency. The 2% would be emergency calls, talking about arrest and use of force issues.

Stan Campbell: So it's a lot of work. What everybody needs to understand, and let's start out with backstage, stating that, we have a great system in place, and it's a layered system. Number I, we want everyone to know that if you have account issues, absolutely send them to David. Don't call the non-emergency number if it's an account issue because, by design, we don't have them ... The contracted organization who handles our non-emergency calls, we don't have them able to have access to your accounts. And that's just to protect you guys. It's all about protecting you all from police officers here. Everything that we do, even what we desire for customer service, is so to protect you, your credit card, access, and all that.

Stan Campbell: So if you guys have any account issues, please send it to david@ccwsafe.com, or support@ccwsafe.com. That way, you don't waste any time, you don't get frustrated because the non-emergency agents you can't have access or can't access your account. So you don't want to put that information out there.

Stan Campbell: The other thing that I want you guys to understand is that this is a very unique business and it's a very unique service. And when people call us to get answers, it's not usually a quick one-minute phone call. We spend a lot of time with our members on the phone. I wish we could do it a little bit faster but those who call can really, and please send emails supporting my statement right now for those who have enjoyed the time and effort that we have spent with you 30 minutes to an hour, to really give you an understanding of this service, your protection, because a lot of this stuff is built in legal leads.

Stan Campbell: Although our agreement is pretty cut and dry, there's still some legal leads in there; it has to be because of contractual agreements. But people usually you don't understand a lot of this stuff without lawyers. So when they called David, or when I see there's an overflow and I jump on the phone, because I oversee all of it as well: If I see there's a pending call, I'll jump on it as well and take some calls. But when we spend that time with you, please understand if we don't get back with you, we have to put it in a priority and we're getting back to you as fast as we can. So, make sure that you guys just really be patient with us. Kudos to David for spending that amount of time and giving these people a real understanding of their coverage.

Stan Campbell: But before we start with David, I wanna talk about a call that I just received, because Dave is going to go over today. Not the Top 10, nor the most significant, the calls that we get most often, the frequently asked questions that come across his computer most. But before he starts, I'm gonna jump ahead of him and talk about one that I received today.

Stan Campbell: One of our members who has been with us for a long time, I'll just call him Jim S., it becomes [inaudible 00:10:07] listen to this, but Jim called me and he and I, we've been ... I've been trying to give him understanding and we finally kind of got through to him today 'cause I got on the phone. Sometimes it's best to get off the computer and get on the phone.

Stan Campbell: I talked to Jim about his services that he's providing for his church with a volunteer security. Please understand that we absolutely support what you guys are doing when you, as concealed carriers, are getting together, teaming up with your churches, and trying to give them some extra support beyond who they hire for security, their armed security outside or if they don't have it. Putting teams together, training together, and doing all those things. That is a noble thing that you do will be a church and it's absolutely needed.

Stan Campbell: Well, Jim and I discussed today because he has one of our older plans and he's moving toward the ultimate plan, which has a special coverage for volunteers security, for churches only. So, he and his wife are moving to the ultimate plan to have that coverage because I sent him some other alternatives. Because, for us, CCW Safe, what we try to do is really cover you and give you advice and recommendations that even protect you from yourself.

Stan Campbell: What I mean by that is, I already stated, and you all will agree with me, it's a great thing to defend the church, and those that go there, but please understand, if you get into a use of force, you will absolutely be a hero that first day, second day, that first week. But if you overshoot and you make a mistake while all the members of the church are running around, and you accidentally shoot an innocent person, although they will thank you initially for defending their life, please understand they will be contacted by a lawyer and they will sue you and the church for damages. It's just going to happen. It's human nature, it's the process. It's unfair, but it's just what's gonna happen.

Stan Campbell: And that's the reason why Mike and myself and Kyle, the partners, decided to protect you guys a little bit with the ultimate plan because it's a dedicated million dollar civil liability coverage that will cover you for that type of incident when you're in a legitimate shooting, and you're trying to protect others or yourself and you shoot an innocent bystander. It's needed.

Stan Campbell: So, I went over those things with him. I made it known. He told me that he even got permission from his pastor, who created this volunteer group. But I told him. I said, "Please protect yourself and get that in writing, because at the end of the day, when the smoke clears and they start trying to sue the church, it's gonna be every man for himself regardless of how long you guys have known each other. I mean, it's every man for himself. So, we're trying to get you guys to protect yourselves. If you are in church security, please protect yourself no matter what you think and upgrade to the ultimate plan so that you can cover yourself, because at the end of the day, that's what it's all about and that's what we care about.

Stan Campbell: On that same note, I'll give this one more little tidbit before we add David in. Sorry for taking up all this time, but it is very important. The reason why it's important to go beyond your homeowner's insurance and any other insurance entity, we hire civil attorneys for you, not for CCW Safe, to protect you and your actions with that as the agenda. Other entities, homeowner's insurance, they're gonna hire lawyers associated with that insurance company to protect that company first, and you second. That makes a big difference, and that's why we open this thing up for you.

Stan Campbell: Guys, please research. Research your own ... I'm not gonna tell you that. Research your homeowner's policies, make sure that they say that they cover, and it has to in its verbiage, "We cover intentional acts because, although you didn't force a shooting, it is an intentional act." If it does not say that in your policy, you are not covered no matter what your broker may try to slide to you in between the smiles and laughing. Please protect yourself, and that's what I had to say on that. Mike I'll let you jump in.

Mike: No, that's great points. And we do have a lot of that. So, what do we want to do? Let's get right into it. Just for time, do you have some questions that we were gonna go over today or did you-

Stan Campbell: Well, what we did was we had David pick up some of his top questions and, as he's going forward, I'll add some more, ask some more-

Mike: Yeah, we can jump in.

Stan Campbell: Yeah, we'll jump in.

Mike: Okay. What we figured was that we would kinda get a list of our top questions, because we do get these spurts of questions too, that we get one question that starts coming in and then we get a bunch of those questions coming in. I don't know where ...

Mike: (silence)

Mike: ... have some that are more common than others. So we figured we'd kind of go through that, and somebody maybe who listens to our podcast, who's not a member, might be able to get some insight. Or if you're a member, you might not have full understanding of everything that we do. So, let's just jump right in.

Stan Campbell: Okay. Who'll be your first?

David Darter: Okay. Let me start just real quick by kind of talking and following up on what you said, Stan. We try to do the best job we can. We take great pride in our customer service. We are in the midst of an upgrade to make the check out much easier right now.

Stan Campbell: That's right.

David Darter: And then within the next probably four to six months, we are going to be updating some of our phone systems and things like that. So, we constantly try to make it better and easier for new members to get ahold of us and we wanna answer your phone just as quickly as possible. Unfortunately, you can't have an infinite number of specialists.

Stan Campbell: That's right.

David Darter: So, sometimes it might take us a little bit, but we try to get used as quickly as we can, and we are doing a lot of updating that's going to make your whole experience I think much easier. So, I just wanted to throw that out there. So I think-

Mike: And, on that too, there are other ways that people can can find out answers to their questions. We have a new chat that we kind of rolled out maybe six months ago. Some of that is automated; kind of takes you through. So if you ask a certain question, email support at ccwsafe.com is a good one. Sometimes, if you have a pretty simple question, if you email it, you might get an e-mail back before you would if you were to try to call in. So, we have different ways that people can get ahold of us.

Stan Campbell: Absolutely.

Mike: The chat, I think, has been a really get additional niche right on the website. If you go to ccwsafe.com, you'll see it pop up there.

Stan Campbell: Yes. Just to piggyback what Mike's saying, hey guys, this works Central time because that's where our hub is located. We also have the West Coast times, but the West Coast Times but West Coast [inaudible 00:18:27]. So, if you do have issues that you need dealt with pretty quickly, you don't try to contact David between the hours of 8:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. in Central Time.

Stan Campbell: Once again, we're trying to get ahead of any frustrations you might have or delays. David also does not work on the weekends. So, be mindful of that. If you say, "Hey, I contacted David on Friday at 10:00 p.m., you're not gonna get a response from him until Monday morning. So, please be mindful of that as well.

Stan Campbell: Also, Mike did mention some of the other ways that you can gather information. A lot of people don't know that you can go to the website and you can find our frequently asked questions. Locate the frequently asked questions. I mean, there's two pages of them. So, you can get ahead of it and really study what your policy is about. Look at our terms of service. Look at the terms of service and copy that now. I mean, it too is on the website. Make sure that you go to the terms of service and have an understanding of what you actually have as coverage.

Stan Campbell: But those means there, and to go along with Michael, you did mentioned the Chat function as well. We have a live chat, but a lot of the questions that you guys have can be answered on the FAQs, either in the Chat function or automated function, also has FAQs that we've seen with the live agents there. You can go there, look at the frequently asked questions on chats, look at their frequently asked questions on the website, and you actually have your answers when you put it together before having to call us. If you don't have an understanding then ....

Stan Campbell: And we actually designed the chat function. It is automated initially so that it can answer simple questions. But if you ask a question a second time, please understand that the automated function is gonna state, "I'm gonna send you to a live representative." Okay? Then it sends us a message and we pick up on it. All of that's by design, like real simple stuff that it won't take us a long time to deal with. We can deal with the medium level request, and also semi-emergencies and emergencies.

Stan Campbell: We're doing all this to try to keep the machine moving because at the end of the day, it's all about the emergency calls and everything else, it's not really an emergency, we can help you through. It's a non-emergency or an elevated non-emergency where you have a credit card issues, please, by all means, call David to get it taken care of.

Stan Campbell: I wanted to kinda jump in and let you guys know about that so that you know those are the working hours. Don't frustrate yourself. I'll also give you a little head's up. Thursdays is the day, for some reason, that we don't have a lot of calls and e-mails. So, if you have something that can wait to Thursday, call at us Thursday. But if you try to hit us on a Monday, we're catching up on weekend stuff, non-emergencies and David is swamped on Mondays. You're probably not gonna catch him as fast on a Monday as you would on a Tuesday, and then Wednesday and Thursday. And please be mindful of that.

Stan Campbell: We're trying to really assist tens of thousands of people, and just to be honest, we're still talking about hundreds a day. Let's be honest. 50 to 100 contacts a day is what we're dealing with, and these people all expect 30 minutes to an hour and it's only an eight-hour day. So, if you guys do the math, I hope you understand that. You have to just be mindful of that.

Stan Campbell: Anyway, sorry. I get to talk too much, but go ahead Michael. God bless.

David Darter: So, I think one of the first things that is probably one of our most frequently asked questions now, and is probably due to the political climate, the things that have been happening in some of the states. Do we cover New York? Do we cover Washington? Both of those states now have passed legislation where some of the other companies can't service members in those states. We still do. And Stan, I don't know if you wanna kind of explain the [inaudible 00:22:49] of the business.

Stan Campbell: Absolutely, I will.

Stan Campbell: Hey, guys. Those who are already members, kudos to you because you chose the right company. Those who are not, research, make an independent decision, and be Michael especially if you're in some of these questionable anti-gun states.

Stan Campbell: David brought up New York and Washington state. We know the issues with New York. About a year ago, their governor all out, assault on, one of our competitors and also anybody associated with the Second Amendment. The reason why I say kudos to those who are members and part of our family already is the fact that we saw this coming years ago. And in 2016, 'cause we talked about it in 2015, we saw the writing on the wall. That's the importance of having people that know what they're doing and experienced in the criminal justice system, and handing handling a serious civil litigation across the nation. That's what you have in CCW Safe, and we are also leaders in the industry and forward thinkers. So we tried to get ahead of the anti-gun campaigns, and one was New York.

Stan Campbell: So we saw the fact that we should not follow everyone else and attach ourselves to a traditional insurance and broker for insurance coverage backed by a foreign entity in Europe. We knew not to do that because we knew that it left you open as vulnerable to that traditional insurance industry that is regulated, while our competitors, all of our main competitors did that. They went for about a year or so, doing a really, really good job and taking their members.

Stan Campbell: What I mean my good job is taking in a lot of members, but then once they got attacked, the anti-gunners, they were smart enough to attack the brokers, not the actual company. So they attacked the brokers and stated technically, 'cause this is what it comes down to, technically they are engaged in selling their illegal insurance products by teaming up with this competitor of ours. And by doing that, because they're allowing them to sell products and they're outside of the traditional regulation, it makes it illegal in that state. That's why the government sued our competitor and they exited out of New York. There's another competitor that is still not selling any additional ones but allowing its members to stay on board until their memberships expire, and then they give them a letter to say, "Now you're no longer covered in the insurance, which is a different conversation.

Stan Campbell: One thing that I'm gonna fall back on again is the way that we designed our model. Our model was designed so that CCW Safe is insured through our insurance company that we own, backed by reinsurance as well. So, we have a two-layered protection for CCW Safe to help us to deal with these catastrophic events and these critical incidents in support of our benefits for our packages.

Stan Campbell: So CCW Safe is the insured, we are not an insurance company. Let me say that one more time. We are not an insurance company, and we do not sell insurance policies. Our competitors do that. We are a legal service subscription plan, and we facilitate finance and coordinate all the efforts and resources associated with defending your actions in the use of force that is critical. Therefore, we are allowed to stand strong in those states because we're not doing what these other companies are doing. We are not presenting ourselves as an insurance company, nor an associate with traditional insurance product. Therefore, we are the only one standing strong in Washington State and New York. There are no other products there, just us.

Stan Campbell: And there are other there other states that are doing the same thing, like California and New Jersey. So please, if you live there, pay attention to what's going on there in your legislation because they're trying to put a stop to you guys being covered as well. And then once that happens again we're going to be the only one standing strong and only ones that's going to be able they truly state that we cover everyone in 50 states. No one else in the industry is gonna be able to state that, unless they follow suit and design themselves like CCW Safe, and it takes about a year to do that. So, in that time, in the next year, we're gonna be the only organization standing strong in certain states because of the way that we're designed.

Stan Campbell: You got anything to add on that, Mike? I know I said a lot.

Mike: No, no. That's good. Good point.

Stan Campbell: Thank you. I did my job, thank you.

Mike: You did your job, and you did it well.

David Darter: You did. You did it.

Stan Campbell: [inaudible 00:28:28]

David Darter: No, I just wanted to bring it up. That has been a very popular question.

David Darter: So, one of the other questions that we get a lot of is, what is the difference between civil defense versus civil liability? So, all of our basic packages cover unlimited civil and criminal defense stemming from a self-defense incident. That covers attorneys expert witnesses, private investigators, any fees that come along; deposition fees, filing fees, trial cost, court costs, mistrials or retrials appeals, anything that has to do with your actual defense is covered unlimited on what we pay.

David Darter: Now, the civil liability is a little different animal, in that your civil defense is covered while the trial is going on. After a trial, if there was a civil monetary judgment brought against you, then that's what the civil liability covers, up to $1 million dollar civil liability. And that's after a civil trial. That comes after a civil trial, and so that's what the difference is to those two. While one covers defense costs, the other one covers after a trial for any liabilities that would be brought against you.

Mike: Yeah. One good point I want to bring up is, it's a dedicated one. If you have a civil liability coverage, meaning that after the trial is over and the judge says, "Okay, you're found in judgment of $1 million, if you have the civil liability protection, then that is a dedicated $1 million. So it's not a wasting policy where, if the cost of the trial was $400,000, then you have $600,000 left over. That's a wasting policy. So that's taken out of that million. Ours is the dedicated millions. So if you have $400,000 trial costs, then you still have $1 million dedicated on that civil liability policy because it's a add-on separate policy or a separate membership. So, that's just one point I wanted to make.

Stan Campbell: Absolutely. Just piggybacking both of your thoughts, I want to caution everyone who hasn't made a decision to get coverage thus far. I wanna caution you to truly be careful about how some of these companies market their product. And really, at the end of the day, anybody that's watched a used car dealerships commercial or you've been up at night and, you've got, while you are punch, drunk and tired, you end up buying something from a commercial when you know you went to purchase that thing in the morning. Be cautious of the tricks that are associated even in our industry. Because some of these companies, I mean, wow, they are masterful in their marketing attempts.

Stan Campbell: Some these companies spend more money on marketing than they do on their members. No, we don't. But there's a reason for that. We keep all of our resources for you guys when you need it, and of our stuff is word of mouth as well, but I want you to be careful because they use a lot of scare tactics, videos, to scare you into submission, and buying their product so that you think that the civil liability is your first fight, and it is not.

Stan Campbell: I mean, if you can do any research, because part of my job is to research the industry, and in doing so, I challenge anyone listening to my voice at this time, to locate three, more than three, incidents across the nation, in the past 20 years, in which a concealed carrier has used legitimate self-defense, and has won a criminal trial, but the system allow a civil proceeding to continue and a civil suit to go through, and in that they actually lose a civil suit because, Number I, you're not gonna find too many where someone that is not or that's acquitted of the criminal charges, are not protected by the state for the civil proceedings. But you're not going to find any, unless you find it in Philadelphia. I think I found one in Philadelphia. Philadelphia is the only place that you might find one or two, where someone has won a criminal case and they lost the civil ... The civil was allowed and they lost it, and they had damages.

Stan Campbell: So, I'm saying all that to say, you being sued for your use of force, if you just hit the suspect ... If you just hit the suspect, it's so small of a chance. We only deal with, to be honest with our listeners, 0.1% of our members, there are tens of thousand of them, 0.1% get involved in the deadly use of force incident. 0.1%. Less than that, 0.1% of that, will be those involved in a civil proceeding. In the seven years that we've been doing business, and we serviced a lot of members in shooting cases, We've only had one that went to the beginnings of a civil proceeding before we were able to resource it out and to negotiate it out. We have not had anyone, and we have not had to pay out, on a civil lawsuit.

Stan Campbell: And we and we do the most work out of everyone. We're the only ones with a documented use of force by one of our members that went from an allegation of murder and completed an entire murder trial with the Stephen Maddox case. We're actually sitting on two other deadly force cases that we cannot mention for confidentiality reasons. But I need you guys to know that. And challenge these companies. When they tell you, "Hey, we've got a gun for you." Or, "Hey, we've got this and that," or, "We'll give you extra two months on your service if you join us now," challenge them and say, "How much work have you done? Show me. How many members have you paid out on civil cases?" They're not gonna be able to produce anything because it just doesn't happen that often.

Stan Campbell: So, you guys, be careful about that because it's really tricky in the way they bring you in. Just like Mike talked about the wasting policy. Nobody really knows what that is. They think with somebody tells them that you have $2 million of coverage, you go, "Well, my God, that's twice the amount of everybody else's coverage." Well, really it's not. They're saying, out of all of the things that you can do, all of the little elements that you can use them for and you can be resourced for, that it amounts to that. The problem is, it wastes and it takes away for every dollar that you use, and it starts off with $100,000 for a retainer if you take someone's life. That's where they turn you.

Stan Campbell: You can do your own independent research on this, guys. Look at the industry, check with your local criminal defense attorneys, ask anyone that has tried cases for murder, how much do they require for a retainer. And the retainer just readily, it started working. That's not all that it cost. So, I want you guys just to be mindful of that because it's scary.

Stan Campbell: This is why we're so upfront with you guys and we're so truthful. Number I, we all come from a background of servicing citizens, but we like to lead with honesty, integrity, and good character, and it stands by and it supports our core values as well. So, we give you information in support of our core values.

Mike: Yes. Next up, David.

David Darter: Okay. So, I think next we came out with some new plans here. It was late 2017, fourth quarter of 2017, and anybody that had plans, who'd had been a member with us longer than that, you were grandfathered in with what you had. And so, basically, pretty much what happened was they just renamed the plans and made a few changes like bond amount.

David Gardner: So, if you had the military law enforcement plan, which was what it was called up until 2017, and you go to the site now, what you're gonna wanna look at is the protector plan. 'Cause the difference, one of the main differences between what you have and that protector plan is the amount of the bond. Unless you've upgraded to the $1 million bond on the old plans, you're covered for $250,000 bond and the new plans cover up to $500,000 bond on the basic plans.

Mike: And David, before we go any ... Or I'm gonna let you wrap this up, then I'll talk about the bond.

David Darter: Okay, all right. So, if you had the military law enforcement, you would basically wanna look at the protector plan, which is the renamed plan with some changes. If you had the annual single membership, you can look at the defender plan. And if you had the dual membership, it would be either one of the protector or defender with spouse. So, we get that a lot. You are grandfathered into those. You could keep those as long as you want. A lot of members do, but you do not have to update, upgrade, or switch to one of the new plans.

Stan Campbell: Yeah, and then just to cut and jump in real quick David, hey guys, remember you're allowed the grandfather in as long as your automated payment does not stop. If you're automated payment because there's a guy that they'd have to e-mail you. But there's a guy that allowed his payment to lapse back in 2018, and back then he was on the 129 payment plan, which is our old basic. He wants to get the 129 plan again, and it's just we can't do that. I mean, if you allow your payment to continue on, then you can be grandfathered in.

Stan Campbell: If it does cease and you stop it, and you try to come back later, we can't give you that. We're not selling that any longer. I mean, it doesn't even compute. We can only allow it to continue. Our computer doesn't allow us to go back to that price because it's not attached any longer. You cannot get the old plans. We know what the pricing in the old plans if you did not have it and it's not a continuous cycle. That's the point of being grandfathered in. Just to let you guys know, that that came from Mike Darter.

Stan Campbell: Mike Darter wanted to take care of those who wanted to hold their pricing, but at the same time, when he explains the reason for us changing the standard, which he will do in a minute, there's a reason why we did what we did and moved away from those plans. We're trying to give you guys more protection. If you don't mind, I might just jump in real quick and handle that, and we will let David finish.

Mike: Yeah. So there's two things that went into this decision. One was the Maddox trial, and one was the fact that his bail was set at $500,000 just based on the fact that there was a man that was killed and he was the shooter. Didn't really take anything into effect about the case, about that it was a self-defense case. I mean, that was just based on the fact that, "Your honor, we have one dead, we have one deceased, and this man shot him." Boom! $500,000.

Mike: Again, there's another-

Stan Campbell: Hey Mike, also I think that was because he lived in another county. So he lived outside that county as well, is reason why. They made that soft justification 'cause it is really weak what they used that one.

Mike: All right. Yeah, it was weak. There's another article that came out on priceonomics.com, and I'll try to put this in a show notes but it was on America's peculiar bail system. It came out kind of talking about the Freddie Gray in Baltimore, and some of the other cases. And it was really a kind of a more liberal piece talking about, why is bail for murder cases so much higher than the other cases?

Mike: In the bail system, you have bail starting at $1,000 or so going up to, I think it was around $55,000 for most cases, felony cases, and then, I think it went up to $250,000 for rape and sexual cases, and then murder cases, manslaughter cases, jumped to $500,000 to a million. It was basically saying that the bail system is unfair, but it's just another key piece that made us realize that if we have, in the case of Steven Maddox, he had coverage for up to a million dollars bail. If he would have got that bail set at $500,000 and would have had the standard $250,000, we might not have been able to get him out of jail.

Stan Campbell: Yeah. And the reason why Mike says that is because, we would pay 10% or up to 10%, which would be 25,000, and Stephen would have had to pay 25,000, which he did not have.

Mike: One of the whole things that we have to worry about, that we have to kinda moderate with our members is, keeping them in the best physical, mental, and emotional shape to prepare them for that trial. We can only do so much. If somebody is in jail and cannot get out of jail, and some people think, "Well, if I could get a bond out." Well, you might bond out. The judge may say he's not issuing any bail. And in the case of Stephen Maddox, it was 30 days later. He's gonna miss Thanksgiving with his family.

Mike: We were able to get that within, I think, eight days or seven days, something. But, we have to make sure that our members stay healthy emotionally, mentally, physically to prepare them for this time. Stephen went to a two-year trial process before he even went to trial. You can see from some of the videos of Stephen, there are many days that he woke up and he didn't really want to even stick around. As far as, he just wanted to just give up. He would call our critical response coordinator, which was John Risenhoover at that time, which did a phenomenal job on that.

Stan Campbell: He did.

Mike: He had dietary guidelines and workout regimens for Steven. So that's why we said, "If there's a case of a self-defense case that is gonna be a murder 1 charge, a murder 2 , manslaughter, it's going to be most likely $500,000 or more.

Stan Campbell: Sure.

Mike: And if we can better cover our members, that's why we took our bail up to $500,000 'cause we didn't wanna have to have one of our members get stuck in a situation where, based on our terms of service, that we couldn't help them and get them out. That's another reason why, if you look at our website, our whole site ... We do three posts a week. Last week, we didn't do a podcast. We kinda took a week off because we've been re-strategizing some things. This week we're back on and every Wednesday we're gonna have a podcast, or try to I can't say that we will for sure have one, but we're gonna try to do this weekly.

Mike: We've been doing weekly for the last three, four months. We also have posts every Friday from Shawn Vincent and Don Weston, in self-defense, which looks at high profile cases and what they did right, what they did wrong. We also have posts by either us, or Steve Moses, or Bob O'Connor on Mondays, and all those, if you look at our site, all those are trying to help people to avoid these situations. So, if we can help our members avoid these situations and give them examples of what should be done, and we're doing the best we can to help them mitigate the risk, that they're not gonna be in a situation that is not gonna be defendable as self-defense. So that's the whole reason why we took that.

Mike: I'll put that link in the show notes, it's priceonomics.com. If you search America's peculiar bail system, you'll probably get it in a search and you can look at it. It has all the kinda statistics on that. Based on that and the fact that we had our own experience with Steven Maddox is why we took that up.

Stan Campbell: That's right. I couldn't say anything better than that, Mike. That was awesome. What Mike is saying ... Like I said, we invite you guys to grandfather your plans, but our new standard, and we're trying to make this to the industry's. The standard is a $500,000 bail coverage. I think there's only one other company that has matched that standard, but that's where actually they tap out. We tap out at a million dollar bank coverage.

Stan Campbell: But the reason why we do that, like Mike said, we really need you guys out of jail. It doesn't help us at all for you to stay in jail. If Steven Maddox would have, and I know you didn't hear the numbers from Michael, right? If he couldn't get out of jail, please understand that's two years in jail waiting for trial. That's not where you wanna be. And for $50 or more, and that's the reason why we made the increase to 170 now, for the defender plan, you get the $500,000 coverage.

Stan Campbell: So, even all of you who are coming up on your renewal date, please do, do so thinking about how should I be covered? Or do I have? Or really, you don't have to upgrade because it's really not about the money for us. We're just trying to help you. Put $25,000 aside in a savings account so that you can match our $25,000 so we can get you out of jail. And if you don't have that, like most Americans, please allow us to take the financial burden off of you. That's it.

David Darter: All right. Let's move on to the next one. On the dual plans, we have quite a few people. Lot of members getting the ultimate plan now where it automatically covers a spouse. And the question that always comes up is, where do I put my wife's name and why is she not showing up on the account?

David Darter: Most likely, she's there. If you go to your ... If you log into your account, or if you're in your account, and you go to My Memberships, you'll the primary membership card, and then right next to it, you'll be able to sign a second card. Now, that second card is therefore your spouse only. That's not for a friend that lives in another town or anything like that, that's for your spouse.

David Darter: So, if you go to that, you'll be able to enter your spouse information and then she will be listed right there next to you. And you can look at her membership card if you like, by, I think there's a view button, or you can click on her account number that's there. But that's where you'll enter your spouse's name, and that's what that second card is for. It is for a spouse for one of the dual memberships. We have a lot of people that think that that's, "Hey can I put somebody else in there? Can I put my neighbor in there?" Whatever. That's not the case for that. It is for spouse only. You can do that under the My Membership selection under My Account on the top menu bar.

Stan Campbell: That's right.

David Gardner: Just like-

Mike: Ultimate plan has a lot of ... If you haven't looked at that, it has a civil liability. I mean, it's our top-tier plan. It has everything available. So, if you do have a spouse, whether they just wanna be covered in the home or if they do have a permit, that would be a great plan to look at.

Stan Campbell: That's right. And then also, that plan still does cover you guys for your spouse if you wanna cover her for provisional terms. She'll be covered on the provisional terms as well, but she will not be covered for civil liability. Only the primary is. Because we get that question as well. Unless you add civil liability, that's an additional $220 a year, you make the decision whether or not it's worth it. Weigh out the options of your wife. If she carries, she doesn't have as much as you do in public while you guys are together, weigh out the options whether or not you wanna pay that. We don't push that upon you. We leave it up to the member whether or not they wanna just be primary covered or not.

Stan Campbell: But please understand, she is not covered, or he ... Your spouse is not covered unless you have that additional civil liability coverage. And David Darter explained that yes they do get civil defense. And although David said unlimited, sort of you guys are gonna use our words against us, what that really means is that, your defense funds are not capped for everything needed to prepare you for, or to get through trial. Because something might say there is no such thing as unlimited. There is a limit. When the trial's over, then that's over.

Stan Campbell: We don't have a cut-step plan. That's one of the reasons why our defender plan, we can match against ... And that's our standard plan. Our defender plan, we can match against most companies' higher plans because we created the ultimate plan through the brilliance of Mike Darter to be the best in the nation [inaudible 00:53:59], and the most amount of benefits for the most reasonable amount of cost. So, for 4.99, you get all of that, that we give you, and it covers a lot.

Stan Campbell: And people that don't understand, even those companies that they say, "You have over $2 million of coverage," but look at the coverage you have for your defense. Because if you'd only have $500,000 of coverage or less, to $250,000 of coverage, say this is worse, for your defense, when that money runs out, where do you think it's coming from? They're not gonna just say, "Hey you, I owe you. It comes from the member." So, when they say, "This is all you need," or, "You only need 20% because we're a reimbursement plan," please don't fall for that. Use your good judgment, please understand what happens in these cases, and how much money you would need. If you run out of money, if your plan runs out of money with these other companies, you're gonna pay. That's it.

Stan Campbell: Now David.

David Darter: Okay. All right. Next one I just wanted to touch on was credit cards. With credit cards, we have a lot of people that will have a change of address. And they change their address in their mailing address, in their profile, but because billing addresses can be different than mailing addresses, if you change your address in your profile, you'll also need to go into your billing information, which is under My Subscriptions. You can go in there. There's a Change Payment Method, you can go in and change that, and make sure you get that changed there as well. Because if you change your profile address, it does not automatically change your billing address.

Stan Campbell: That's correct.

David Darter: Absolutely.

Stan Campbell: Yeah. The reason why they've told you guys that is because your plan is gonna fail. It is gonna fall. You went in and changed your profile, but you didn't go in and change what you need. And he's giving you that information now that let's you know, go in there and edit your credit card. Don't get mad at us because you get a failure and it has a mismatch. It's just part of the system. You need to upgrade it, just like you would at your bank. All of these need to be upgraded. And it's the same thing for us, you gotta update that information so that it doesn't fail.

David Darter: And the failure is the security.

Stan Campbell: Yeah, is is.

David Darter: It's therefore your security. So yeah, that's just something that we don't wanna change a lot for people because they don't realize that but they can do that right there on their own account. So, I think the last thing I wanted to just touch on was our membership cards. At the end of 2017, I did a digital membership card, which is a membership card that you can download to a phone, iPhone or Android, and have it with you always on your phone. It just gives you another place to have our emergency information.

David Darter: The wallet card is is not automatically sent out any longer. However, if you have to have a wallet card, then you can always request that by just sending me an email at david@ccwsafe.com, and we will send you one. But it's not an automatic thing. The digital card is a card of choice, currently.

Stan Campbell: That's correct. And then, in saying that too, David, guys please remember, 'cause I know that there's some folks that either don't have a ... There's a small number of you don't have a smartphone, or you're just old school, because this is what I say all time, "I'm old school. I need something in my pocket." Even if you request one from Dave and he sends it out to you, I just wanna caution you guys again. Although we used to back when we first started ... We used to say, "Show them your CCW Safe membership card and say that you're having a lawyer on the way, we no longer do that. I mean, we put that word out a couple of years ago, that we don't want to sway a decision of a responding officer, investigator, or anyone, that you planned for this to happen. So, we don't wanna give that to them. All we need you to do is say that, "Hey, I will give you the details of this incident in the presence of my attorney, and I've already called my attorney."

Stan Campbell: So, to just add another quick one before Michael closes this down, but that's also why we want you guys, don't stay on the phone with 911. Do it long enough to give them your description, that you've been attacked and you had to defend your life. You need medical and police. Get off the phone and call us. Because we do that, we tell you that for a reason. We don't want you to have to say, "Here's my card." You don't have to try to make a phone call in a police car, in front of a police car, because of the videotapes, the car cams, and anything you say in the police department as well, you don't have any expectation of privacy initially. When you make a phone call there, everything's recorded. And they wanna take you to a recorded interview room for your statement.

Stan Campbell: So, please know that if you want your phone call with the lawyers to be privilege, do it prior to the officers getting there, from a safe place. Make sure that you're not in high shot of the suspect, get behind cover, and make the call. Even if there's a car or something like that.

Stan Campbell: I had to add that. Sorry Mike.

Mike: No, you're good. You're good. It is going on rather than an hour, so we're gonna have to turn off. Shut it down.

Mike: Do we have any other questions that we wanna address today?

David Gardner: I don't have any. We are constantly trying to keep questions updated on our FAQ page. So, it's always good to go look there first. I think most of our main questions that we get asked over and over are on that Frequently Asked Questions page.

Stan Campbell: Hey, Mike. Can I ask? I have one more and I'll get off of it.

Mike: Yeah.

Stan Campbell: Just because it comes up so much. This is for those guys who really concentrate on the forums and the information they're getting about zones that say no guns. I'm gonna talk about this real quick before I have to bring it back later, 'cause I'm gonna David back. Although Dave is saying he doesn't have anything, we doesn't have time for you, he went to come back and assess for Part II. But no gun zones, if it is a felony or a misdemeanor in itself to possess a firearm at a location like a federal building et cetera, you're not covered. You're outside the scope of coverage because it's illegal to do so. You know that.

Stan Campbell: If you are in a state in which it is not a misdemeanor crime to walk on to private property of someone else's, and it only becomes a crime after they tell you to leave and you refuse to do so, the crime of trespassing, if you accept that charge of trespassing you refuse to leave, you're outside of the scope of your coverage. If you agree to leave, or if they don't know that you have it and you accidentally ... Stop trying to challenge these, don't use us to challenge people. If you accidentally walk on to property and you didn't see their sign, and something happens you defend others and then they come back with a charge, and they didn't tell you to leave, we will cover you.

Stan Campbell: If you will on your way out after they tell you to leave, and Al-Qaeda or ISIS comes in the front door and you handle the threat, we will cover you. So, I just want you guys to know, this is not a game for us. This is really not a Second Amendment issue. This is about using deadly force, which is not a Second Amendment issue. We're trying to protect you from yourself as well. So, please, stop trying to challenge these things and know how you're covered.

Stan Campbell: Go Michael.

Mike: Well, I'm just gonna say, a lot of the examples we get from people, the only answer is, "Well, that would be a challenge case and that's not what we're here for." Like Stan said, that's why we put all these case studies and stuff online, so you can see what other people have done, and what life sentences other people have gotten for what they've done, and it's just not worth it.

Mike: (silence)

Mike: (music)

 

Inside CCW Safe Podcast- Episode 25: Media Matters feat Bob O'Connor

In this episode, Stan and Mike talk with Bob O'Connor about what can happen when you are involved in a lethal self defense incident when it comes to media coverage.  

Bob was the supervising investigator in the George Zimmerman case, which was a case that experienced a plethora of misinformation in the media surrounding the case and investigation.  Bob dealt directly with various media outlets during that time, and experienced what we have always believed and stated, which is, misinformation can quickly become fact in the public domain if it is not immediately addressed.  In the Zimmerman case, there was so much misinformation that was being disseminated through various channels, that the investigation couldn't keep up to even attempt to address much of it.  Furthermore, when certain aspects were addressed, the media itself chose to put aside facts and continue reporting misinformation.  

Bob eventually resigned the Sanford Police Department over the handling of the case and went on to become a special investigator with the state attorney's office.  He recently retired and is now an author for CCW Safe, and has written an outstanding series of articles on The Principles of Concealed Carry Commitment, including Mindset, Education, Training, and Judgement.